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Gilberto Gil
played Australian WOMAD for the first time in March 2004. Cristina
Dio listened in on the press conference for Bahia's musical legend
and cultural minister.
GG: Let me just say how happy I am to be here for the first time
in Australia. A place I have been dreaming about visiting for
a long time. I never succeeded you know and finally this invitation
made it possible so I’m so glad to be here.
Q: What was it about Australia that captured your imagination?
GG: The kangaroo! (laughs) It’s a symbol of wildlife and
especially being a south continent and having a unique civilising
process of its own and that kind of thing and the mixing of European
colonisation with local, natural cultures – similar to Brazil
and parts of Africa. This new world as compared to Europe and
Asia, China, India and other places that are going on for millennia
and that kind of thing here – I was curious about how new
Australia was.
Q: How are you impressed by the Australian political process?
GG: I think its so similar to Brazil and South American countries
and emerging African countries like South Africa and Nigeria –
you have here a passion about how to balance rationality, from
the European standards and with this kind of new situation that
the environment offers and that nature offers – the civilising
process itself needs this kind of balance that interests me and
this has been part of the discussion…the political, conceptual
discussion – what kind of identity cultures like this should
look for…which kind of material progress we should have
at the same time – which kind of room should we leave for
free behaviour, free type of establishing ourselves as a human
society. I think all those vis-à-vis type of things with
ancient civilisation and western conventional civilisation, especially
European, I think this thing is very interesting – this
has been a discussion here and in Brazil and in other emerging
countries
Q: Are you concerned by this focus on globalisation? Not just
music but culturally there seems to be a great dominance of one
particular culture to the exclusion of many others.
GG: To the exclusion of many others … but at the same time
making possible the inclusion of many others, you know, also.
We may not forget that television and planes and satellites and
fast transportation, and all of that technology… which are
part of this western civilisation as you put it… they're
emergent from our hegemonic situation, especially by the United
States and some big European economies. They are all making possible
too the emerging of the localities, the different regional processes
like there’s a Pacific thing, the Asian emerging, the South
American, the African, I think its locality, rather than globality
– yes local and global together.
Q: As minister for culture do you think that children from
a very early age are taught about music so that they can become
not just consumers but participants in the whole process of music
as culture?
GG: This is one of the challenges that we have all over. In developing
countries especially is to at the same time to provide the access
of cultural goods – of conventional and ordinary ones to
the vast, general population – I mean classical music, European
artistic values and that sort of thing – conventional cultural
goods as known, but at the same time pushing them the possibility
of expressing themselves, being recognised, being popularised,
being shared and becoming industrial also, becoming commercial
goods, being put into the economic process, so for that we have
to invest largely in educating the populations in providing them
musical tuition, artistic tuition, a variety of different possibilities
of being formed and being instructed in different fields and areas
so they can express themselves, Have access to the classical forms
of culture and being able to show their own new forms of culture.
This is a challenge for all of us, especially in developing countries
like Brazil, where we have large, large populations from the favelas
and the slums and sort of thing that have their own forms of expression,
their own forms of music, dance and so forth and they need to
be recognised, be included, be part of the system.
Q: Is there a possible conflict between music and the ministerial
work?
GG: People expect more from an artist than they normally expect
from a politician and I was saying that this type of different
expectation is not just a problem that I have – it’s
a problem that we all have from the simple worker to the chief
of state. We always have this problem between the symbolic universe
and the pragmatic side of life and how to conciliate it. Its something
that we all conciliate all the time so its not just a problem
of mine. In my case the conciliation depends more on my discipline,
my will, my commitment in arranging time and avoiding conflict
between one activity and the other. This artist travel that I’m
doing - I found time to lecture intwo universities in Hong Kong
and to have meetings and do ministerial work and at the same time
perform and for that I had to wake up very early, I have to exercise,
I have to be fit.
It has a sort of sacrifice to be done in order to be able to do
both and I think that’s it it depends on how you take it,
if you put it in a positive way by saying let me try or let me
try to do my best then you have a chance to succeed and its 14
months now that I am in charge of the ministry. I have been able
so far to be able to conciliate to wear the two harts to do the
both things and I think I’m okay.
Q: Does the postcard carnaval still exist in Brazil today?
GG: Brazil is a multi-variety cultural nation and how difficult
it is for me to represent in my case artistically. I have tried
all along my career. I have tried to represent different aspects
of Brazilian Music. I do a little folk north eastern music, I
have samba in my music, I have bossa nova, I have rock’n’roll,
I have reggae - so for me it is not too difficult to represent
the broadness, the whole picture of Brazilian music but anyway
its not necessary that one artist does it all.
We have already overcome this stage and Brazilian carnaval is
not represented anymore by that standard. Bahian carnaval attracts
more people from abroad than Rio carnaval does today and it is
not a conventional carnaval standard at all – we have trio
electricos playing rock'n'roll, reggae and hip hop, electronic
music and we have two million people in the streets for seven
days doing so many different things and then we have gay groups
all around doing their own thing. You know, it shows the diversity
not only of Brazilian culture but planetary culture. In a sense
you go to Bahian carnaval and you have a taste of what is going
on all over. We are rid, we got rid of that standard postcard
of carnaval that we had at the past.
Q: Why, during the development of Brazilian music have the
rhythms evolved differently to other Latin and Caribbean countries
despite the shared African influences?
GG: In both cases Cuba and Brazil – Bahia music, the African
group the African element that influenced the nation were similar,
both Yoruba, both cultures coming from the Guinean gulf, from
Nigeria, Dahomey, Ghana, Togo - that part of Africa. And they
developed differently as you said, I think its because firstly
of the natural environment. It does count you know and secondly
because of the colonisers you know -the Spanish in Cuba and the
Portuguese in Brazil and the local Indians. We developed a different
accent in our music, despite being as rhythmical as the Cuban
despite using many similar instruments – we got the samba
and the Bahiano and the whole folk manifestation differently from
Cuba that got the rumba. Basically I think that is due to Cuba
having the Spanish afro accent whereas we have the Portuguese
accent.
Q: To what extent have you been shaped by your own political
experience – jailing and in exile – do you feel you
have a greater responsibility to do it right?
GG: A long journey starts from the first step and a long journey
is a summing up of step by step one after the other so I am concerned
about the steps you know… what am I going to do today and
what am I going to do tomorrow. Results are results you know…
I know we have that thing in western culture where we have a goal
and you have to do everything to achieve that goal; as if we are
anticipating things we are putting the results before the processes
and I don’t like being very much like that. I believe in
processes. We have to follow processes all the time.
There is a concept in business administration that replaces the
concept of cycle management. Management that you do following
cycles that are established through goals and things by a flux
process. Managing through flux. I believe in that kind of thing.
I’m a flux man. I follow the reverbs. I follow the tides,
I follow nature - the wind that blows this direction now and then
changes then the rain that comes. I prefer to be more ecological...."
