Since
the 1960's musicians from all over Africa have attempted to achieve
the international profile that Youssou N'Dour has achieved. Taking
time out from a gruelling one-year tour of Europe, he spoke with
Paul Chapman for DIASPORA.
(This
interview was printed in our magazine in 2000).
Talent is never enough, the element of luck: right person, right
place, right time is crucial. It was most unexpected, unlikely
even, that Senegalese style music would make the big international
breakthrough. Senegalese music with its very complicated, hard-to-dance-to,
Mbalax rhythms and often harsh sounding Wolof vocals were not
appreciated widely outside Senegal. Last century, Congolese music
was by far the most popular international pop music in Africa.
Yet for various reasons Congo music never came to the front rank
in the west. Other contenders such as Fela were always too wayward
for the mainstream, and like Sunny Ade, he never produced a four
minute hit pop song. With Youssou all the normal boxes, boundaries,
labels and categories with which musicians live seem to become
irrelevant. It was Youssou's debut at The Venue in London that
changed everything.
The band Super Etoile - dressed to kill, played with the ferocity
of punks but with a hundred times the musicianship. The band created
a mind-bending, seamless blend of traditional Senegalese music,
Cuban music, jazz, soul, funk and rock. Then Youssou sang... nobody
there had heard a voice like it before! A fantastic high range,
passion and an ability to improvise that sent shivers down my
spine and doubtless the spines of others present. The most significant
of those present was Peter Gabriel: 'The thing that amazed me
was the voice - like liquid silver'. It was this revelatory performance
that launched Gabriel's long involvement with Youssou, and encouraged
him to become involved with WOMAD, the Real World Label - and
the whole 'world music' thing. Youssou retains that fantastic,
otherworldly voice to this day. It brings a touch of compelling,
unique magic to all his work.
Speaking to me late at night from Germany where Youssou is currently
touring, I asked him if he was surprised that it was his Senegalese
style music that made the big international breakthrough that
artists from all over Africa had sought for so long, and could
he explain it?
"There are two different things. Firstly, people like me
and the others - we have a lot of experience with different people,
like Peter Gabriel. People know we are coming from Senegal, but
the big audience doesn't know our music. They know our name, the
experience we did and the talent we bring. I think they have respect
for this. I'm not sure they know Mbalax music. The other thing
is, we are more open to join different kinds of vibration. People
were really surprised when they heard Youssou doing something
here, Ismael Lo there, Baaba Maal or Omar Penne doing something
different with different people. But except for those people who
know Senegal, I'm not sure people know our music, what happened
to our song, the beat. 7 Seconds is a big, big door for Senegalese
music. It was big, a worldwide hit. People are looking behind
7 seconds. They know Senegal, my name and they start to talk about
it. My next plan is to try to get people to really know Senegalese
music, to make sure they love it."
Despite the sophisticated gloss, Cuban-jazz-western tinges Youssou
has added on occasion to Mbalax music, it began as and remains,
literally, the 'Street Music' of Dakar. The music in the street,
on village festival occasions and urban street parties was, and
still is, organised by women. Twenty years ago the ordinary people
would dance flamboyantly to the rhythms of the Sabar, Djembe and
Tama. While respectable urban women and men would restrain themselves
from joining in. Instead, the elite politely danced the steps
of Latin music, indoors, in posh nightclubs. In taking the music
of the street indoors, the fact that Youssou's own social position
was ambiguous, was helpful. His mother came from a long line of
griots, while his father was a 'guer', a freeborn.
"When Youssou brought the exuberant and sensual rhythms of
the sabar into the clubs, he took the lid off the scene",
is how kora expert Lucy Duran puts it, in her authoritative November
Froots article on 'The Xippi trail'. It was a social revolution.
For 'respectable women' the new fashion for dancing to the Sabar/Cuban
fusion 'Mbalax' was liberating. While for the other section of
society the traditional input of Sabar made the Cuban stylings
seem less dangerously foreign. "And for the first time the
whole Senegalese community was reconciled on the dance floor,"
a participant told Lucy Duran.
Youssou appreciates, like few others, the social and musical possibilities
that open up when you take the music of the street indoors, and
make it musically and socially acceptable to other sections of
society. This is still his main strategy, the idea underlying
the music on his new CD Joko. The term means "the link which
leads to something positive and unknown".
Are you still shocking and challenging people with your new music,
as you did when you introduced the Sabar and the Mbalax into the
nightclubs of Dakar?
"Yes, definitely. When you come with new ideas people are
really surprised and it sometimes looks like shock. But as they
understand more, the feel, they get your new vibe. Today its a
bit different because in Senegal they know my two ways of developing
local music, but also to have experience of different kinds of
music."
'Joko' is, perhaps, musically not shocking to Western listeners,
its far more accessible and pop-orientated than the previous album
'Wommat' (The Guide). Is the challenge more in the lyrics? Do
you feel you don't need to do Mbalax to remain distinctive?
"The context of Joko is different. The concept of Joko is
travelling, for the past three years, around the world, to feel
the vibe. Like the fisherman coming back to home. It's a really
different vibration. The Guide was more Senegalese - plus 7 seconds.
This is more just one album. My experience when I'm travelling,
what I see, what I like, and when I go back from here and when
I am home is totally different. This is why my vision when I write
a song and the lyrics is totally different. It is really important
to know how ready people are to receive what you say.
"Mbalax is a kind of language, its kind of folklore. Its
coming from one language, one country. My experience personally
is a little bit more. I love the mbalax, definitely. It's great.
Every time I make a record I make a decision what I'm going to
do. This time on Liqueey and Baykatt, a connection with a rhythm
of Casamance, South of Senegal. It's different African, connecting
to the things I was looking for. The mbalax is different, but
it's not really a mbalax album. Its an African modern album and
I'm really happy with it.
"One of the things I am trying to do is bring a lot of the
stuff I did already in Senegal to the rest of the world - to see
what happens."
For those who want to hear the classic Mbalax sound of today it
is possible now to get the occasional CD of the cassettes Youssou
puts out for the Senegalese market. Folkways has Youssou's Fin
De L'Annee on Jololi, Youssou's own label. Youssou comments in
passing:
"It is my dream to one day sign a contract with my own label
in Senegal."
(Jololi clearly does not have the distribution Sony can bring).
Mbalax in Senegal has evolved again with a new generation called
'Boul Fale'. Youssou says: "Its more rhythmic, more fast.
It's something really interesting. The horn section left because
we need to play for the percussion. Maybe one day we bring back
the horn section."
On his current tour synthesisers have also replaced the horns.
The most interesting musical departure on Joko is his collaboration
with the US, Fugees rapper Wycleff Jean. Youssou explains 'tassou'
and his affinity with rap.
"Tassou is a Senegalese kind of rap, that was in my music
from the beginning. Somebody like Alla Seck was the one, who between
the lyrics, would tell about the story. It was kind of rap. I
realise now how interesting is the street. And I try to bring
those things back to my music. Africa now is more the streets
than the country side. Musically the vibe is urban, more the street,
in the past ten years.
How Come marks the beginning of my collaboration with Wycleff
Jean. It happened in London. We were in a car and I played him
the rough mix of this track. We then recorded it in new York ...
Wycleff gave me the sound of the streets...'
Have you had the chance to listen to the sounds of the streets
in Europe?
"Yes. But I don't really hear the street in Europe. Its really
too modern, too busy, really fast. In Africa and in South America
the street is still the street. You see lots of people that don't
have much to do. There's a vibe, music and a way they walk - there's
a lot of things happening. In Europe really I don't see the street.
I heard it on the radio sometimes. Rap or something like that.'
In Europe and Australia, 'Electronica' is the main music of youth
today. "Yes I know" he laughs.
Do you want to communicate to that audience?
"Not really. One thing we have together, both electronic
music and dance music that they love here, this kind of thing,
keeps something we have. When you have African or Senegalese song
we repeat the same thing a lot of times. We keep one line playing,
(sings) Dat da da -ding. It hypnotises people, like a trance.
I think that is really interesting, it is our thing also."
One of the most trance-like electronic songs on the album is Mouvement.
It also contains some of the best, critical lyrics on the album.
"This song speaks of the people who refuse to be defeated
by the unpleasant surprises in life, in particular the immigrants
who do not have their official documents to stay in France. I
wrote this song during the Eglise St Bernard incident in France
regarding this situation. Immigrants were tracked down in the
night. The night brings with it many secrets that we do not expect.
People don't expect anything to happen during the night, and when
it does, they are taken by surprise.'
Perhaps Youssou feels one way to connect with the elusive 'streets'
of Europe is through duets with the pop/rock stars Sting and Peter
Gabriel. He may well be right. It is disappointing, though, that
he has not made the connection to those other 'streets' of dance/club
music, in the compelling way someone like Khaled has done. But
then Youssou likes confounding expectations.
Don't Walk Away, another nice pointed lyric, Youssou says, was
written while in Malaga, Spain. It's a standard Sting-sounding
pop ballad with the bonus of Youssou wailing away at the end.
This Dream is a good song with elusive lyrics and a typical reedy
Peter Gabriel vocal. Youssou says:
"This Dream is about Africa and its relationship with the
Anglo Saxon countries, I felt it was obvious I should do a duet
with Peter who for me is the most important promoter of African
music in the west."
The first four songs of the album have the strongest Mbalax feel.
Birima has been one of his biggest hits in Senegal in recent years.
It's about a famous young king of Senegal who was a great patron
of musicians. It is an anthemic sort of song, this new version
kindly provides a clear downbeat so Western ears don't get lost.
Wycleff provides another re-mix of it as well. Baykett, a song
about farmers and drought, originally out on 1998 Cassette release
called Lii, is one of the more upbeat songs on the album. One
of the delightful surprises is a marvellous version of the Temptations'
Don't look Back, produced by Wycleff, with superb singing from
Youssou and a nice Motown feel. One of the most inspiring songs,
with a great lyric is My Hope is In You, his song for youth. It
reads like a tender prayer. Red Clay revisits the musical territory
of Useless Weapons and is song that deserves 'high rotation' in
northern, tropical Australia were they have such soil! There are
many beautiful, beguiling songs to savour on Joko.
In Senegal, Youssou is better known and more influential than
the President himself. Despite regular calls after gigs of 'Youssou
for President', he has no political ambitions. He does have a
business empire. He now owns the majority of the Senegalese music
industry: with the best studio, the major label, pressing plants,
radio station, newspaper and even soon perhaps a TV station.
"Its not my main business, for me music is my main business.
It's not the things I'm working every day around. I have a lot
of people who believe in this and this. They like it, they do
it. One thing I feel about the music business is to try to do
something for my country: help young people, musicians to have
rights, and to help Senegalese describe different kinds of music.
This is why our radio station is something interesting. They play
a lot of the music we make and interesting styles of music. I
want to bring a lot of interesting people, different talent from
Africa into the music business. Artists who do something different:
like different musical experiences and artists who do something
people are not expecting, musical experience between continents
and different sounds. Every time I come back with something that
surprised the people I am happy!"
When not on tour the band Super Etoiles and Youssou play three
to four hour sets every weekend at his club Thiosanne.
"We like to play Thiosanne. People love it and the vibration
is great. Most Western musicians don't get to play that much.
That's the difference!"
It is most unusual for African musicians to stay together in the
same group so long.
"They have been with me and they can do projects if they
like. I think they are great musicians and if you keep the same
band for more than ten years, really, you can hear the difference.
They play a big role in my success. They move like me into different
experiences, they learn a lot of things. Now we have a mission
to keep our people together. The result is great. When people
saw the concert, they are surprised how much they like about the
band and how much we enjoy our music.... Our next album is going
to be recorded on this tour."
